Too often, we define long prison sentences as "justice." But when we define incarceration as justice, it creates a big problem. Parole, or the end of a person's incarceration, can feel like we're losing out on justice. I know well the feelings connected to this. I have my own family's experience with homicide. And I have talked and listened to many other folks affected by homicide.

For this episode, we talk with Jamel and Jose, New Yorkers who served long prison sentences and were subject to New York's parole process. And we talk with Carol, who served on the Parole Board before leaving and becoming a critic of New York's system. And you know this podcast, we don't just talk about what is wrong with punishment. We talk about what can work better! Our guests talk about better approaches to transforming people and preventing future harm.

Stories of child abuse or the death a child shock us, and they should. But how much do you know about the systems that are supposed to prevent this? We talk to several moms who went through New York's "child welfare system" wringer. They decided to do something better to support parents and became part of the community at Rise. These moms and our other guests talk about why our "family policing" system doesn't work. And how we could replace it with strategies that actually support safe and healthy families.

We can all agree that all the children and adults in a school should feel safe and should actually be safe. But when violence or the threat of violence happens, how do we get safer schools? 

In this episode, we explore how students want–and are creating–safer school for themselves without relying on punishment. We visit Martín Urbach and the Circle Keepers, a restorative justice and community organizing program for young people. We speak with two students who tried to start a restorative justice club at their high school. We also talk to Ashley C. Sawyer, Esq., an education justice advocate and adjunct faculty at Brooklyn Law School. She talks about the role of punishment in schools and the school-to-prison pipeline. 

We all want safer schools. What are the skills and resources we need to get there?

For this episode, we visit the wondrous folks who run OnPoint NYC, an overdose prevention center. They base their work in the principles of harm reduction, which we explore in this episode. And we also talk to Toni Smith, the New York State Director at Drug Policy Alliance. Together they explain the futility and danger of trying to control addiction by punishing people for drug use.

Gun violence is horrifying, and each life lost to a gun is a tragedy. Most interventions involve creating punishments for gun possession or use. That can sound like common sense, but in reality, it's a racialized practice. And it's not been that effective for keeping people safe from guns. Are there better ways to prevent gun violence? For this episode, we go to Queens to talk with the fine folks at Community Capacity Development. They have time-tested ideas about the causes and antidotes to gun violence. They're doing the work in Queensbridge, one of the biggest public housing projects in North America. Let's listen to them.

This is the Problem with Punishment Podcast – Spoiler Alert! The problem with punishment is it doesn’t work. But the bigger problem is that we turn to punishment in every aspect of our lives. From our families to our neighborhoods, our boroughs, our city, we keep expecting punishment to make things better when for the most part, it makes whatever problem we’re addressing worse. Every time punishment fails, it hurts. Some people have taken the pain of that failure, and turned it into purpose.

We’re talking to a range of New Yorkers who have experienced firsthand the failure of punishment and who have found or created something better to do instead. From gun violence to child abuse to drug addiction, New York can lead the way in actually solving some of our most pressing problems. 

But first, we have to talk about the Problem with Punishment.